Cooper

I was interested in a good all around kayak for general use and fitness n a variety of conditions: mostly light flat-water to moderate conditions on large water bodies (no rough surf). I found a used Cooper at a good price, so decided to go for it.

The Cooper seems designed with the idea of maintaining a balance between easy assembly, affordability, and adequate durability. Now that I'm practice I can assemble it in about 20-25 minutes. The first few times it took me about 40 minutes. I took my time in an effort to better understand the boat's structure.

The materials seem to be good quality: the aluminum frame tubing-thickness appears to strike a decent balance between light-weight moderate durability. In 2012 they replaced the Hypalon hull with Elvaloy. It appears very durable, but has one crucial flaw: it's extremely difficult to repair, and field-repairs are all but impossible. It seems very little adheres to Elvaloy: consequently, the hull-repair process is time consuming and requires specific safety and environmental controls. This seems like a huge blunder by Folbot: Despite Elvaloy's durability, easy repairability is a crucial requirement of any hull material. Apparently, Folbot didn't consider this when selecting Elvaloy.

The Cooper is generally a good boat for the price, but be aware it does have a few design issues. The frame is very flexy, which isn't that noticeable in calm water, but in stronger current and swell it's more difficult to direct and control than hard-shells and higher quality folders. The zippered-deck isn't watertight, but it's usually not a serious concern except in tumultuous conditions when it's breached or submerged repeatedly. A little bit of water also enters via the hull/deck interface seam, but it's generally very little, and this seam can be sealed. The cockpit is also very shallow, making it difficult to brace lock oneself in for rolling (esp larger paddlers).

Despite it's limitations The Cooper performs very well in calm and moderate conditions: It's comparably fast to hard-shells of similar dimensions, tracks straight, but responds fairly well to leaned turns. Rolling is fairly easy for average-size paddlers (I'm 5'10", 175 pds), I'd guess it'd be somewhat difficult for large or small paddlers.

If you need/want an efficient, folding kayak that's easily assembled for light to moderate conditions, the Cooper is certainly worth considering. There are definitely better yaks out there, but most cost at least twice as much. The only other comparing-quality boat maker in this price range is Pakboats, which are more difficult to find used. A used, reasonably priced Cooper is a good value, but a brand new boat is only a decent value. If I were going to spend that much, I'd probably look for a used boat made by a higher-end maker.

I am an ACA certified kayak guide and trip leader, as well as avid adventurer. I really enjoy paddling in a Folbot Cooper kayak. Being able to keep in in my trunk and be ready for adventure on a whim is really important to me, and I have gotten assembly down to just shy of 15 minutes!

The sleek design allows for great speed, especially compared with the Tsunamis I had been used too. But that doesn't compromise stability which I had feared at the beginning. I am able to edge with confidence and trust the integrity of the frame and skin.

I recently spent 3 days and 55 miles in my Cooper during an expedition. I had all kinds of gear for the trip and the seals and waterproofness was amazing, above expectations. But the thing that truly impressed me was being able to handle it fully loaded down a winding blackwater river. I'm still always going to be leary of oysters, but that's a concern for fiberglass boats as well.

Charleston County Small Claims Court has ruled that South Carolina kayak manufacturer Folbot, must pay restitution to the plaintiff owner of a Cooper model kayak. Folbot advertising claims that the kayak exterior "kept water out," and that the craft was "designed for oceans" were challenged by the plaintiff whose St. Lawrence River expedition was cut short due to the unseaworthy kayak. The Cooper's failure to resist gushing from waves through inadequate zipper and Velcro closures was demonstrated in court with video recorded inside the boat.

Folbot CEO Eric Thome admitted seeing the leakage video last July and immediately telling the plaintiff to return the boat for full refund; he also admitted reneging on that offer. Folbot's counsel argued that all purchasers have an opportunity to return any boat without question within their standard 30-day warranty period but the plaintiff successfully argued that the product's closure system only revealed its flaws after repeated opening and closing.

While Mr. Thome touted the company's 80-year reputation for quality, it was pointed out that his "Death Valley Ventures LLC" had purchased the company only recently (2012). The current owner's reputation is still in the making, however, it doesn't bode well that while declining to appeal the court's decision, they've also declined to make restitution ordered by the judge.

The Folbot Cooper has to be my most expensive shopping fiasco – especially as the company accepts no responsibility for their product's failure and refuses to take the boat back for refund. When the sales rep recommended the Cooper to me, she was aware the boat would be used on an upcoming St. Lawrence River expedition. Folbot's catalog does boast that the boat is, "Designed for oceans, lakes and rivers," however, that couldn't be farther from the truth.

When taking waves along the starboard bow or over the stern deck, the boat quickly became unseaworthy as water poured into the deck zippers. Video demonstration available at YouTube "FOLBOT FOOL – Leaky Zipper"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeZbXTHO-dM.
The Folbot catalog proudly boast, "quick, easy gear access through zippered decks…Velcro storm flaps cover zippers to keep water out." Unfortunately, water also finds quick easy access and the flaps certainly did not prove reliable; after just 3 weeks of opening and closing (2-3 times daily) the Velcro had weakened so badly that a gap opened up allowing water to directly enter the zippers.

The company ran a gentle spray over one of their boats and discovered a trickle which they attributed to leakage through the stitched seams along the zipper, but they never subjected the boat to a blast of water equivalent to a strong wave. So, rather than looking at the possibility of a design problem, (i.e. Does the zipper flap need to be wider? Would higher quality Velcro improve seal? Is it even possible to waterproof a zipper? How can we prevent this issue?) they assigned me the responsibility for sealing these seams. Sure enough, the Cooper Owners Manual mentions, "If you plan to roll your Folbot or bury the gunwales frequently to turn abruptly, we suggest you apply a thin coat of this sealant to the joint between the deck and the hull on the inside of the skin." I never buried a gunwale.

Yet this whole business of customers obliged to seal their own seams does not sound entirely credible for folks selling boats. Isn't a normal boat buyer justified in expecting that a boat, by definition, will arrive water tight? After all, my rain jacket and tent arrived with sealed seams. Why is anyone out there selling boats that do not keep water out? Turns out others have had problems with leaky zippers and have posted online suggestions about plugging leaks with beeswax. Umm, sounds sticky to me but I'm sure neighborhood bears would love it.

Folbot has never been truthful in advertising and to add insult to injury, their lifetime warranty covers framework and skin for manufacturing defects but does not address their major design flaw. Just in case you hadn't heard enough to convince you to select another manufacturer's product, consider that pieces of my frame arrived too long and I had to saw them down to size and that Folbot's new Elvaloy
http://www.folbotforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4804
bottom material is nearly impossible to field patch as only an elaborate three part epoxy seems to stick.

I can't get Folbot to buy back my boat but I can help others avoid the same pitfall. I've learned that, "the bitter taste of poor quality lasts long after the sweet taste of a good price is forgotten." Perhaps I can help others avoid wasting money and compromising their security on a poorly designed boat. For me it's a moral issue – for boaters, it's an issue of safe paddling.

"In brief, we are sorry that this customer had issues, we have worked with her for more than a year to satisfy her needs and have already compensated her for more than half the value of her kayak. We work hard to match a kayak with its owner and its intended use but can only go so far. Our thousands of customers over the lifetime of Folbot's history can and do attest to our enduring innovation, high quality and excellent customer service.

In full, Folbot as a manufacturer and retailer of our folding kayaks went above and beyond to help this customer research, try and test her kayak before her planned trip. We involved most of our staff, previous customers and additional resources to meet this international customer’s needs. In general, we try our best to help each customer select the right kayak for them and their intended use but we cannot and do not claim to be experts on any waterways or conditions. This customer required a kayak that fit into a single bag for her travels and we focused on matching her and a traveling companion with either a Kiawah or a Cooper. After her receipt of the Cooper, for the next month we helped her trouble shoot minor issues over the phone, via email and with Skype and managed to satisfy her to the point she commented via an email in March, "I think we now love each other."

While she used the kayak daily in Italy she had some instances where she noticed water inside her kayak. While this is not common it is not unheard of either. In our Owner's Guide we discuss sealing the seams of our kayak to help minimize or prevent this. Then, we heard from her before her main trip that while hosing away raccoon prints from the kayak deck she noticed water inside the kayak. We tested the Cooper with a hose at the factory, spraying the full stream on the sewn lines of the deck/hull seam, the d-rings, and the storm flap on the stern of the kayak. Noticing water ourselves we repeated the test after sealing all the sewn lines on the bow of the boat. After the seal dried we applied the same, full force of the hose and noticed no water. We communicated our findings to the customer, re-emphasized the need to seal all the seams and felt as if we responded quickly and effectively to her latest need.

During her trip we started receiving communication from the customer and read on her blog about her issues with the kayak. Given her blog reports of extreme weather, with major rain and heavy wind gusts we understood the issue to be the extreme amounts of rain and waves that were causing unsafe conditions and disturbing her trip. We understood the conditions were so poor that her traveling companion was injured and forced to stop the trip. Our customer continued alone and continued to make negative statements about Folbot on her blog. At this point, we considered it a major customer service issue and, of course, a public relations issue. However, we read comments on her blog by her followers to the tune of, "I saw you paddling on the river today and could not believe you were actually out in those conditions."

As it turns out, the customer did not seal all the seams of her deck as we recommended. At the start of her trip the conditions were fair and she had no complaints about the performance of her kayak (even after she punctured the hull while packing her camp stove). However, once the weather turned for the worse, her kayak took on an unmanageable amount of water. The customer continued in these conditions for nearly another week before finally ending her trip.

Soon after the end of this trip she contacted us for a refund for her kayak. From all her descriptions of her paddling it seems as if the kayak performed as it was designed. From my notes, at that time I disagreed with her that the kayak was faulty. However, I offered her a 30% refund for a kayak she had used extensively for more than four months. She was unhappy with that amount and as her review fulfills, she said that she would "liberally add to our advertising campaign". I told her then that even if we refunded 100% of her money that I could not control what she said. Her reply was that she would be "much more likely to delete all negative posts if we gave her a full refund."

The back and forth went on for weeks and eventually I told the customer to return her kayak and I would give her money back. I never watched her videos but simply realized this was not worth the time and attention she was demanding. Since continued attempts to negotiate and after asking legal counsel about our options in this matter I finally realized that this would never end and chose to break off communications. I never reneged on any offer but I did stop reading and responding to the customer's messages.

Eventually I was legally obligated to face the customer as she sued Folbot in our local Small Claim Court. She flew herself and friend from Italy to Charleston to meet with us before a judge for less than two hours. The judge finally ruled that we owed her a partial refund because her kayak still had residual value. Slightly disappointed but glad that the event would be behind us, we followed the court's order and sent money to the customer. As the review shows, apparently this episode will continue. However, we will use it as an opportunity to improve the way we do business and hope to bring our customers better products and services.

And as a point of pride, I must say something about our manufacturing and quality. When I had the fortune of getting involved with Folbot a little over two years ago I inherited one of the finest crews of craftspeople I have ever dealt with. Their tenure with Folbot is from 10 to 32 years at this point and they have been with the company through all sorts of changes. They constantly strive to produce the finest kayaks - period. Their dedication to quality and the customer experience is what makes a Folbot a Folbot. I am proud that we employ six dedicated craftspeople in Charleston, SC to make wonderful kayaks we ship to customers all over the world.

Also, our materials are absolutely top of the line. We have made changes to materials and design and we learned about change, our process to manage change and customers' reaction to change. Our hull is seriously tough stuff to prevent issues and we have easy patches for when those issues happen. Our repair kit to add replacement material uses one tube of adhesive and we have offered it on our website since early 2013. We are dedicated not only to making the best kayaks but also to keeping them in the best condition.

As another point of pride, I must say we have some of the finest customers in the world. We are lucky to be in this industry and working to help people enjoy their health and the outdoors. The stories we hear of great times on the water with friends and family fuel us every day. In fact, most of our business comes from customer word-of-mouth. Thank you to everyone that paddles a Folbot and spreads the word about the folding kayaks you love. As always, please let us know if you need anything."

Eric Thome
President and CEO
Folbot
eric@folbot.com
843-744-3483

I was looking for a kayak primarily for recreation and exercise, but I also wanted a boat versatile and spacious enough for trips of up to a few days. I also wanted a boat durable and stable enough for a variety of conditions: Everything from calm inland bodies, to moderately turbulent coastal waters (no whitewater rivers or heavy surf). Since I don't have (nor want) a car and have limited storage space a folder seemed like the best option. I considered all the manufacturers I could find. Since overall value and price were also important considerations, the Folbot Cooper seemed like the best choice. I received my Cooper in late 2009, and have paddled it probably about 30-40 times as of this writing.

Assembly and design:
I practiced assembly/dissassembly about 3-4 times before paddling my Cooper. Plan to spend about an hour the first few times the boat is assembled. This gives you a better understanding of how the Cooper fits together. Assembly now typically takes me about 30 min, but I'm sort of meticulous; with practice it will take most paddlers about 20-25 min. Overall, the Cooper is designed with the 'simple-smart' aesthetic in mind: I love that it isn't any more complicated than it needs to be; assembly is fairly easy, but the boat is reasonably durable.

The first minor complaint I have relates to the half-moon clips: As others have mentioned, during assembly (and often during paddling) the longer ones tend to dislodge from them. Fortunately Folbot has attached Velcro fasteners on the clips at the more critical frame-points, but they should just attach them to all the half-moon clips; this would make the frame more secure for a negligible cost. The cockpit also seems unnecessarily large, though it does make for easy entry/exit.

Performance:
I ordered my Cooper with the airfom seat upgrade, and a nylon-neoprene spray skirt. The airfom seat provides a more precise fit (esp for larger paddlers). I'm 5'9", 155#, and paddle with little or no air in the seat bladder, but the lower-lumbar bladder provides some nice back support. Overall, the airfom seat is probably a good idea for larger paddlers (6'+), but for others it's more of a luxury than a necessity. So far a rudder hasn't seemed at all necessary, though it might be for those paddling in high winds.

I've paddled my Cooper in a variety of conditions, from the calm inland waters of Lake Washington, to 3' waves off the coast of Kauai. It's proven to be a nice balance of speed and stability, and so far it hasn't suffered any damage other than blemishes and normal wear. This is my first experience with a folder and it's paddling characteristics are more similar to a hard-shell than I expected. The frame is highly flexible, but this doesn't seem to effect the overall performance much. As other have noted the flexible frame and skin improves stability significantly. I'd trust the Cooper in just about anything except heavy surf, and open ocean crossings (though the latter is probably doable).

At a comfortable pace the Cooper easily maintains a speed of about 2.5 mph, and at a brisk pace the speed increases to about 3-3.5 mph. The practical top speed seems to be about 5.5 mph, or at least that's about as fast as I've been able to paddle (at that point greater effort didn't seem to yield more speed).

So far I haven't used my Cooper for any overnight trips, but there is certainly enough cargo space for at least 3-4 days worth of supplies (depending on how light one travels). I've paddled with about 50 pounds of gear, which improves stability (provided the weight is balanced), but causes it to sit noticeably lower in the water.

Overall:
While the craftsmanship isn't comparable to high-end manufacturers like Feathercraft, and the Cooper does have a couple fairly minor design/engineering issues (to make assembly simple and keep costs reasonable), it's plenty durable enough for the conditions most recreational and fitness paddlers will encounter. Overall the Cooper is an exceptional value for a quality folding kayak.

I had several problems with the Cooper.
First, the skin (the newer version) developed a hole at the end of the zipper line shortly after purchase. Next, the cock-pit coaming, the foam piece is too fat. It doesn't fit well and comes off with every wet-exit, and re-entry. The spray skirt will not stay on. The inside cock-pit coaming also comes apart where it is attached to the top longerhorn in both the front and the back. This creates major safety concerns for me involving rescue and re-entry procedures. Next, the foot braces come off where they are attached to the number 2 rib. Finally, this boat is made for larger paddlers. For those under 5 foot 6 ( I am 5-2) it is impossible to do any kind of brace or roll. I would fall out just trying to lean the boat over on its secondary stability.

I am giving this boat a higher rating than it deserves. The reasoning is because I believe it is a great recreational, flat water kayak for short-distances. It would work well for those who do a lot of airline travel. Those considering this kayak should consider carefully the limitations of its design.

I did a lot of research and reading of forum posts before finally settling on this kayak. My final choice was strongly influenced by the many positive reviews of this boat and all the good comments about dealing with the folks at Folbot. I was not disappointed. The whole purchase experience was easy and the boat arrived in about two weeks, as promised. Craftsmanship of all components was faultless and exceeded my expectations.

Assembly:
First assembly was completed without any problems and took about an hour, but that included the time to read the instructions and to unpack and remove the shipping wrapping from all of the components. Instructions are straight forward and easy to follow. Subsequent assemblies are now taking about 25-30 minutes and disassembly can be completed in 10-15 minutes, which includes wiping the skin dry and folding it properly so it all fits back into the bag. With the Cooper’s unique skin tensioning system, assembly requires no physical straining whatsoever. I use a closed-cell foam pad in the bottom of the cockpit to insulate the floor and I let the pad run up over the seat for additional padding. This makes for a very comfortable cockpit.

On the Water:
For a kayak with only 24 in. beam this boat is very stable – easily stable enough for relaxing, photography, wild-life watching, etc. The long cockpit allows easy entry and exit and even with the float bags installed there is still lots of storage both forward and aft. The Cooper accelerates very quickly, tracks absolutely straight and will cruise comfortably at 6-7 kmh (3.5-4.2 mph) with very little paddling effort. With modest effort it will sprint to 9 kmh (5.4 mph) – I have not felt the need to go any faster. I have had it out in 30 kmh (18 mph) winds and it took the waves very well and exhibited negligible weathercocking. Even in those conditions it still felt very stable and secure. I did not order the optional rudder for mine and I have not felt the need for it. This boat is a true joy to paddle! I use a “Seals” partial spraydeck (size 2.5 fits perfectly) and it keeps the cockpit completely dry, even when waves break over the bow. I find it more comfortable than a full skirt (but of course it would not be suitable for rolling).

Improvements over previous models
The current version includes several modifications over earlier models:
Revised stern assembly – the gunwale longerons now include sliding extensions so that they connect to the stern piece same as at the bow.
Velcro straps on critical frame positions to hold longerons in place and prevent them from popping out of the half-moon clips.
Revised seat with rigid, contoured seat pad and stiffeners in the backrest.
All of these combine to provide a stiffer frame structure. Once the frame is properly tensioned in the skin and the sponsons are inflated, the result is a very stiff and rigid hull.

Summary: The Cooper is a stable, fast, fun-to-paddle boat. It is guaranteed to put a smile on your face!

I have had my Cooper for over a year now. I purposely bought it because my friend and I had it in mind to pursue long distance trips far from home. I am also a large framed guy so I needed a boat like the Cooper.

I have taken the boat from Albany NY to NYC on the Hudson; from Oxford England to London England on the Thames; from Pensecola Fl to TAmps on the Gulf. This in addition to many, many hundreds of miles on local rivers and lakes in upstate NY.

The boat is great. I found it more then capable of carrying myself and the gear I needed for my adventures. You do have to make sure the gear is in good dry bags because some water does get into the boat via the zipper tops. The zipper tops are handy though for getting gear in and out of.

The boat did terrificly in high waves when we paddled on the Gulf. Much of our trip was out of sight of land and at times we were in waves in the 4 - 6 foot range.

The foam on the cockpit is too thick so have replaced with thinner. The screw pieces at thigh level are at times a pain. And, yes, the seat is a joke. I typically use an air pad. I am still working on the backrest. Again, though, I have spent many hours in it.

It is highly recommended to use seam sealer on it and to but the extra wear strips on it on the bottom to lengthen the hull life.

I did switch over to gas pedal type rudder control because I hate sliding petals. I just ordered ones that I have on my Kodiak, Prijon. Easy to switch.

I highly recommend this boat. It folded into a nice large suitcase size bag and was easy to transport on planes to England and Florida. I just purchased a cheap foldable lugga wheel cart and life was great.

If you wanna go places and bring your own boat........this is the way to go. Oh, btw, I purchased it for a little over a thousand on sale. By far cheaper then most other boats.

This review deals with my second trip out on a freshwater river in northern California. My first trip was in Baja Mexico on the Sea of Cortez.

Since I was not familiar enough with the cooper on my first trip out, my observations deal with the second excursion. The boat is very light, extremely fast, surprisingly maneuverable and easy to assemble and break down. Initial stability seems a little on the tippy side, but secondary stability is great. I was especially impressed since the max load for this boat is 250 lbs with recommended paddler weight of around 200. I weigh 255 lbs, well exceeding recommended capacity. Needless to say I was riding low in the water, but what a thrill to paddle this boat.

One small but serious flaw is the plastic knurled nut that anchors the cockpit frame to the center crossmember. Its placement causes it to gauge my thighs on both sides rather painfully. I will have to modify this quickly. Other than that I would give it a ten. I own or have owned at least eight kayaks, from inflatable to fiberglass, composite and oukume mahogany. This will be my favorite!!

I have paddled a Necky Gannet for several years. It is a fine, all-purpose boat, but it is too slow and not large enough to hold gear for long-distance touring. So, I looked forward to trying the new Folbot Cooper, which is 16'6" long with a 24" beam, weighs 31 lbs, and reportedly is very fast. And, since it folds into a 42-inch-long bag, it does not present the typical touring boat storage problems.

Folbots are sold directly from the factory and shipped to the purchaser. It took about one month for my Cooper to arrive. I found the Cooper quite easy to assemble, the materials were of high quality, and the completed boat was sleek and beautiful.

The Cooper is fast! At my workout pace (maintained for one to two hours) my GPS unit shows that I can paddle the Gannet between 3.6 and 3.8 mph. Using the same amount of effort, the GPS unit showed the Cooper was traveling at 4.0 to 4.5 mph. Even when I tried to paddle very gently, the Cooper always stayed over 4 mph. I paddled the Cooper in 2 to 3-foot waves and 15-mph wind and the boat tracked through the waves as if they did not even exist. I cannot think of any other boat that has the same combination of high hull speed and light weight - especially for the reasonable price charged by Folbot. I am a small person, and I can more easily cartop the 16-foot Cooper than my 11-foot, 45-lb Gannet. The Cooper has a v-hull, and feels a little "tippy" at first; but it does have good secondary stability, and it does not feel like it will capsize. It has full-length zippers on the fore and aft decks to aid assembly and afford easy access to stowed gear.

Since the Cooper is such a great paddling boat, why can't I give the it a "10"? It has the usual Folbot minor engineering problems. For example, the seat is a joke. It is a thin piece of closed-cell foam that sits directly on the keel "longeron" (structural aluminum tube). The longeron presses on the paddler's tailbone so that one cannot sit in the kayak for more than about 10-minutes. As a temporary solution to this problem, I placed a piece of closed cell foam underneath the stock seat. Also, the cockpit coaming is not a really part of the boat, but attaches to the cockpit rim, and it is so high and thick that it interferes with my paddling the boat. All Folbot owners learn to be resourceful in fixing the minor engineering problems, and I am sure that I can modify the seat and the cockpit coaming to make the boat fully usable. Folbot has an excellent user's forum where other owners provide lots of useful tips so that you can improve the boat over how it was shipped from the factory. Overall, the Cooper is a fun-to-paddle, light, and high-speed touring kayak.